Do You Submit to Your Man?

submission

Yesterday while aimless meandering the internet I came across a post on What Black Men Want called “Slow Your Roll…Know Your Role“. The gist of the post was basically that the modernization of society has led us away from traditional gender roles and we need to bring ourselves back to them.

The post was pretty interesting, but what really got my juices flowing is the video they linked to in the post:

For those of you who aren’t able to watch it, the video features a couple (I’m sorry but I have no idea who they are) saying that in a relationship, the man and the woman each have four roles to play:

Men: 

1. The Monk: Sets direction and goals for the family
2. The Leader: Is accountable to and present for his wife
3. The solider: Makes sacrifices on behalf of the family
4. The negotiator: Able to communicate what’s on his mind, what’s going on, where they’re going

Basically the man is the king of the castle. He takes full accountability for what goes on in the  house.

Women:

1. The Lover: She is sweet, relaxed, and enjoys sex with her husband
2. The Conservationist: Conserves her energy and doesn’t let herself get stressed out so she can smile and be pleasant when her man comes home
3. The Visionary: She just trusts her man
4. The Devotee: She is devoted to her man’s dreams. She realizes that “his dreams include her dreams” and she supports them

Basically the woman’s job is to surrender to her man.

After the couple smoke, Mo’Nique chimed in saying that the modern woman’s urge to be independent just brings us further and further apart from our men. As she so eloquently puts it “We pee sitting down for a reason. He stands up for a reason. Know your position”.

I found myself nodding vigourously as I watched the video. I agreed wholeheartedly with everything the couple was saying.

Modern woman though I may appear to be, in my heart I’m a total throwback. When I’m in a relationship I expect Mr. Max to run the show. I recently got into an argument with my uber-feminist mother when I told her that I fully intended to vow to “love, honour, and obey” my husband if I ever get married. She said that she would stand up and object if I did that, I told her if that was the case she needn’t come to my wedding, etc. etc.

But as much as I believe in the concept of submitting to a man, the actual practice of it is another story. Any woman who has spent any significant amount of her adulthood being single knows, we get used to doing things for ourselves and having things our own way. And so when a man comes along and asserts is natural position as the leader, it’s really hard to surrender to his direction. Really hard.

I’m all about wanting Mr. Max to be the boss of me. I will serve him, cater to him, obey him without hesitation. Until he makes a decision I don’t agree with. Or tells me to stop doing something I want to do. Or decides that saving for a down payment on a house is more important than the Alexander Wang Perforated Ankle Boots I’ve been lusting after.

Submission is all well and good in theory, but when it gets in the way of my shoe collection, we’re fighting.

That’s my take on it anyway, what do you guys think? Do you guys believe in traditional gender roles or are we off that now? Men do you expect your woman to submit to you? How do you handle it when she doesn’t? Ladies do you surrender to your man?

bag lady. digital nerd. beauty junkie. shoe whore. i'm a sucker for big words and box-fresh kicks. know a little bit about a lot of things and have something to say about everything.

Comments 53

  1. Paperdollcincy says:

    If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times. We have to submit. I think we think of submission as a bad thing and in a healthy relationship it’s not. Submitting doesn’t mean you’re a doormat. Know your role ladies!

  2. Stephanie says:

    Love you Max…. But I scream bullshit on it all!!!

    1. max says:

      Bullshit? Why?

  3. Mr. SD says:

    a SMART women know how to trick her man into thinking hes the man..lol

    And PS I believe all household decisions need to be agreed upon. Speak ya mind ladies! But understand you wont always get ya way!

    1. max says:

      “The man is the head, but the woman is the neck”

      That’s what’s up.

  4. chunk says:

    I am so.completely.torn. (as I have been for the couple months I’ve been pondering this) On the one hand I am a hardwired submissive… on the other, I’ve been running shit for so long I can’t fully submit to save my life- even when I give it my all… it’s just been too long, and never, ever been effective or lead to positive outcomes in my life. I keep saying “If I could find a man who could effectively lead, I’d follow.” But I’m not sure anymore, lol.

    1. max says:

      Do you think it has not been effective because of the men? Or because submission as a concept doesn’t work?

      1. chunk says:

        I’m leaning towards it doesn’t work… because how many men need to fail at it before you finally say, “ok maybe the problem isn’t the men, but the rather the expectation that they are able to do this thing?”

  5. Danielle says:

    I agree with this. I really, really want it. But I have a huge issue with this because I am a control freak but I don’t try to control him-just what’s in my personal bubble. The problem is I usually don’t let him stay around long for my to establish that trust. I have such an awesome and close family they are the ones I turn because they never let me down. So I let a man take control or like Mr.SD says let him think he’s in control I am have to trust him not to fuck it and if he does not let the disappointment ruin our relationship.
    My guy BFF told him that he has the final say so in things because he fucks things up he can fix them. He doesn’t have to go to outside sources to do it. And his wife trusts him to do that. But they also work as a TEAM and make decisions together that is the most important part I believe. Relationships are a democracy not a dictatorship.

    1. max says:

      I’m kind of like this too I think. I don’t have much of a problem submitting to a man on matters that pertain to him. Or to him and me.
      But there’s a whole lot of stuff in my life that I consider beyond his scope that I either don’t tell him about at all or just manage on my own without consulting him. The hard part is being more inclusive and not just submitting on the things I feel like submitting to.

      1. krystal light says:

        This reminds me of a post Linc did about a chick shaving her head. All the women were in an uproar because we felt like it is not the man’s place to decide what hair do we should have. I realize that as I say this, my hair is long because he thinks my hair is my best asset. There’s a difference in there. He can’t demand that my hair stay long but he can tell me what he likes and I can decide to cater to it or not. That extends to other things too. I like my sandwich my way, not your way and if you don’t like it, suck it. I shouldn’t have to consult him over every little detail of life but I should respect his opinion if I seek it out. I think submitting on the things you feel like submitting to is where you draw balance in your life.

        1. Valerie says:

          But there is a difference between submitting to an ideal (a vision of mutual interest set by the man and with the support of the woman), and submission of a sexual nature (such as controlling things like your eating choices), which, if the guy gets confused, shouldn’t be trusted in either case.

  6. krystal light says:

    I like this post a lot Maxie. I will admit though that while I think submission is a good thing and for the most part I am a submitter, sometimes I hate it. I feel like it has stunted my growth somewhat since I almost always depend on him to make the decisions. Also, I think in some households, this can go horribly wrong. Placing that kind of power in the wrong hands can lead to bad things so dude-selection is very important for this and some women don’t realize this until it’s too late. I think I’m fortunate to have found somebody who finally actually values my input. We act as a team but he’s definitely the coach. I think it is a privelege for the man to be treated in this manner and he needs to appreciate and honor his role. Without that, the way a lot of single women and even some of my married friends make things sound, dudes don’t deserve this.

    1. Starita34 says:

      Amen! It is all about picking the right man to lead which for all the naysayers who like to tell me why I’m single: THAT is “why” I’m single, my man is rare and I’m willing to search far and wide for him. I don’t mind submitting to my Father…because I trust that he has my best interest at heart. I haven’t had trouble submitting thus far, I find comfort in it, a power in it – albeit I haven’t truly been tested yet either, seeing as how I’m single and all, but I truly crave submission.

      I can’t say that I was nodding along to SuperCouple in the video though…one of my roles is to “conserve my energy” so that I can smile and be pleasant? For real? Oh.

      I see my roles more as:
      1. The Lover: I we be sweet, relaxed, willing, will initiate, try new things, make his head spin, knock him the eff out and enjoy sex with my husband.
      2. The Conservationist: Conserves her energy and doesn’t let herself get stressed out so she can smile and be pleasant when her man comes home
      The Homemaker: Provide a safe haven of a home for my man to retreat to, feed his physical, emotional, and spiritual body, be a place he wants to come home to every day.
      3. The Visionary: She just trusts her man
      The Partner: We are there to propel each other to heights not within reach if we were alone; to procreate, to support each other as parents, to play off each others strengths and weaknesses. He leans against me, I lean against him, that way we ain’t gotta sleep with our heads in the muuud. #BubbaWisdom
      4. The Devotee: She is devoted to her man’s dreams. She realizes that “his dreams include her dreams” and she supports them
      The Neck: She is his biggest fan and most ardent supporter. Supporting the head, while contributing to the team and family. Adding to the relationship, letting him lead and providing him help so that he does not always have to take the full burden of the family.

      But like Krys said, you find the right man and you can define your relationship however you two agree-and there are absolutely many men that do not deserve nor can handle this kind of relationship, just as many women can not.

      1. max says:

        Interesting Star. I’m curious though – what’s your opposition to making sure you’re smiling and pleasant when your man comes home?

        1. Starita34 says:

          Because I’m still a whole person, with my own life, my own stress and my own issues. Of course, like I stated in “The Homemaker” I want home to be a happy, peaceful place for him, but he will still get the authentic me. If I had a horrible day at work, I’m not Stepford wifing it up to shield him from my “imperfections” of having real emotions. I don’t disagree in theory, that your man should get the best of you, but the way she stated it rubbed me the wrong way, like regardless of your own emotion, what’s most important is that your husband never sees you as anything less than perfect and I think that’s BS. I want him to love the real me, not a projection of myself. Splitting hairs really.

          1. krystal light says:

            Dang Star is GangStar. I may be an inadvertent conservationist though. It seems to me that my day doesn’t truly start until my husband gets home, that I don’t wake up and come to life until then. I feel like I just spend the majority of my days waiting for him to get home and then once he comes in, the world is right again. Maybe that’s not conservation, maybe that doesn’t even sound healthy or maybe he just brings the best out of me. IDK but I like what you’ve said here today. He’s the head, I’m the neck. Gospel.

            1. Starita34 says:

              I feel what you’re saying, and personally I’m stoked for you that you still feel this way after sooooo many years. I know that I sorta light up when a certain someone is talking to me and when he’s not around I sorta still “talk” to him in my head all day anyway, lol. Like as something happens I sorta chronicle it in a file with his name on it to share with him later…

              1. krystal light says:

                Thank you Star but did you have to put sooooo many O’s in that so? Makes me feel old. lol

                1. Starita34 says:

                  lol, I’m just jealous ;-)

      2. krystal light says:

        I’ve got to point out how much I love that you said you find comfort and even power in submitting. I love that. I have a friend who just refuses to fix her husband’s plate when she makes dinner (amongst other things). Fine, whatever floats your boat lady but she explains that his hands ain’t broke and the reason she doesn’t do it is because she “comes from a long line of strong women.” How does fixing his plate make you weak? I make my man’s plate and I don’t think this makes me his weak servant but I do think it means I’m considerate and sweet. My ego is not so overinflated that I will be demeaned by something so natural. By the way, she’ll fix dinner and fix herself and the two kids plates but not his. How hard is it to throw some food on one more plate? (I guess it’s different for me though because when my husband cooks, he’ll fix my plate too)

        I’ve not always felt this way about submission though. When I was 18 and we were living in our first apartment, my husband and I were just getting out of bed and he had to go run an errand. He said I’m going to leave and do this, can you pick up a little? And left. I didn’t do it. He came back and was like why didn’t you do it. I said because you asked me to. Crazy right and he doesn’t let me forget it. But that was back when I used to cry because I couldn’t make his eggs right. I think I just had to grow and while I resent some of the things that come along with submitting, I do think it’s best in my house.

        1. max says:

          I sooo love fixing a plate for a man. That’s one of my favourite ways to show my feelings for someone.

  7. Courtney says:

    I agree with the article and the couple. I feel that as women we should let our men take their natural role. I feel that I got lucky having been with my husband since the age of 19. I didn’t have much time to get set in my roles and was used to having his input on major decisions by the time we said “I do”. Don’t get me wrong there are times when I still want to do things my way and we clash. At the end of the day though I am more than happy to let him take the role God intended as the head of our house.

    1. max says:

      I like your take on it Courtney. And I think what you said about having been married since 19 is a good point. When you are single for most of your adulthood it’s a bit harder to let go once you get in a relationship.

  8. Shani says:

    Hey there! So as a dominatrix I have to disagree w/ this one. See, on one side I know the importance of “letting the man be the man” as in being the provider, protector, etc. But on the other, in my practice and experience I have come to learn that the most powerful men WANT to SUBMIT to a WOMAN! Yeah, I said it.

    The more powerful the man the more dominant he wants his woman. TRUST! Sure there are men out there that want submissive woman but those men are usually not in positions of power in there “regular” lives so they need to feel that sense of power in their “relationship life” (more times, but not always) OR have been raised (brainwashed) to see women as #2 or the weaker sex. Same can be said for the reverse too, woman that usually have to make all the big decisions in their lives (especially career) tend to welcome the opportunity to have someone take charge (in the relationship). But even those take charge kinda ladies are still ball busters that ONLY want to sub in BED while you have your way w/ them lol!

    Many ppl think that the traditional role for the woman is to be the sub but many of us forget that we come from a matriarchal beginning. (before men and organized religion changed things lol)

    The art is in knowing WHEN to be the demure wife, and when to pull up the domme boots so to speak. Or Topping from the Bottom as I call it. The saying “happy wife/happy life” (to me) doesn’t translate “I’m the man its my way” to me it means make your wife your queen (by NOT trying to DOMINATE HER) and she will do EVERYTHING to make you feel like the MAN you want to be ie happy life.

    1. chunk says:

      “Same can be said for the reverse too, woman that usually have to make all the big decisions in their lives (especially career) tend to welcome the opportunity to have someone take charge (in the relationship). But even those take charge kinda ladies are still ball busters that ONLY want to sub in BED while you have your way w/ them lol!”

      Sigh. I can’t even disagree. As I’m playing at being a sub currently, this is pretty accurate for me. But what I hope happens is that some bedroom sub stuff seeps into my non-sexual life and it all balances out! lol.

    2. Mrs. Brightside says:

      I agree with ALL of this!!!!!!! I am one of those “I call the shots in every other part of my life so at ‘home’ and especially in bed I am more than willing to give up the reigns” kind of females. Sir, please, by all means make any decision you feel will benefit us both. I just ask that you consider my feelings and how your decisions will affect me and my daily life.

      If I feel that you are doing your agreed upon share for our unit as a man you can call all the shots you want and I will obey with as little push back as possible. The problem is there are a number of men who don’t want to accept their share. I am not your mother and will not take care of you like she did.

      I just challenge men to stay stead fast in reclaiming their role as man of the house. I see some try but Like Jay said; …still don’t believe you; you need more people.

  9. Uncle Joseph says:

    Mr. SD, you said it! It really isn’t about the upper hand or position, it Is relative to Men taking care of every aspect of the entire family unit, and Women bearing and nursing children. RELATIVE to this! I don’t believe by any means that a woman should be home barefoot and pregnant. I LOVE that independent woman; but she still NEEDS a man, and a man NEEDS her just as much. Don’t take the word submission to the extreme. Success still depends on cooperation and respect.

    It takes a confident man who has his shit together to lead, and respect a strong woman without being intimidated; http://whatblackmenwant.com/2011/12/24/let-me-get-myself-together/

  10. VanDCamp says:

    I totally agree.

  11. superblackgirl says:

    Max and I have had enough conversations about this for her to know how I feel, but I have a question for her and the other men and women who subscribe to this theory.

    How do you think the idea that men are “born to lead” translates into the workplace? Should women be taking a backseat to male employers/fellow employees, allowing them to rise up the ladder and take leadership roles? Or is the power that women apparently get from submission in a relationship only able to exist in a romantic setting?

    1. krystal light says:

      In some ways, I think it depends on the industry but for the most part when we enter the workplace, we’re supposed to be considered equals. Women have to go through the same training that men go through and put up with the same bs that men go through in the workplace but the positions of leadership should not only be reserved for the men. I think women would stop working and just go back home if that were the case, otherwise, it’s like my career success had been capped at a certain level only because there was a dude who came along and applied too.

    2. max says:

      No I think this concept of leadership and submission only applies to romantic relationships. The workplace is a whole other story and in fact in my industry there are WAY more women leading men than vice versa. Although personally I’d rather work for a man. Women are moody as hell!

    3. Valerie says:

      Though I am not biblical at all, I do see a distinction in the words “Head of household”. Those men at work are not the head of your household. Respect in the workplace is prime, but to submit to your boss would be disloyal to your man.

  12. Sam Sharpe says:

    This is nonsense. There is not a one size fits all for all relationships. The only hard and fast role you have in a relationship is to honour and respect your partner.

    On a related note; how would this apply to a gay couple? To lesbians? What, is there something so unique about the relationship demands of a heterosexual couple that requires someone to submit and another to take charge?

    Buy into this all you want people, but recognize you’re also buying into a line of thinking that is a slippery slope, a slope that leads to spaces where a woman should be barefoot and pregnant, earn less money than the man and be silent while he keeps an outside woman as well. SMH.

    1. Malik says:

      I agree with Sir Sharpe here. And I’d like to add that even if you believe you should submit to men in relationships, leadership should be earned. It’s not inherit because he pees standing up.

    2. max says:

      I don’t know men. I think it’s basically the same concept as too many cooks in the kitchen. In every relationship there are roles to play. If everyone is a leader and no one is a follower, how the fuck do you get anything done?

      1. Malik says:

        Max, you talk to some queer couples sometimes. The concept of “who wears the pants” isn’t even discussed or acknowledged. Those that grew up “knowing” or didn’t ever try to have a heterosexual relationship can’t even wrap their minds around the way we assign titles in relationships.

      2. Sam Sharpe says:

        Sure there are roles to play, but when you start talking about things in hierarchical terms and say the man is the “leader” and sets goals and makes decisions it seems to me like a fancy way of saying that the man’s word is law and the woman’s job is to obey. And this line of thinking is more often than not accompanied by a whole host of attitudes and behaviours that belong in the stone age.

        And another thing, I’ve played a lot of team sports in my time and the thing about leadership is it takes lots of forms. It’s not all about telling people what to do etc….Good leaders know when to take the initiative and when to follow. Good leaders know it isn’t all about them. Good leaders don’t need or look for followers, they look for partners.

  13. MariposaDRG says:

    I agree with the couple and with what Mo’Nique is saying. Maybe part of it has to do with how my parents raised me; they always said in a family everyone has a role to play. They were old school in some ways. Their theory was that knowing your place (what you provide to the family emotionally and physically), communication, and trust is what creates a healthy home life.

    A woman “submitting” to her man doesn’t make her weak; the word has a total negative connotation these days. If you think of it a taking a group road trip, you have the driver and the co-pilot. One drives; pays attention to whats going on on the road and the other pays attention to whats going on everywhere else, in the car, getting the toll money ready, etc. For a successful ride you are going to depend on both. Just because your hands are not on the steering wheel, it doesn’t make you less important. And depending on the length of the trip, at some point, you are going to have to drive too.

    1. max says:

      Exactly. I like the pilot/co-pilot analogy. You said it better than I did!

  14. Uncle Suave says:

    I guess we almost wouldn’t have these discussions without the extremists taking things out of context. This is not about man laying down the law and woman following. Look deeper than that. Is a woman supposed to open a door for a man to walk through? No. Do you argue that and ask why? Its just the way its always been, and its not wrong. Good analogy Max (too many chefs in the kitchen). The whole concept is very dynamic in that it is forever evolving, we’re talking about a couples relationship, not coworkers or subordinates. Yes, it does still apply to Gay and Lesbian couples, but just as with heterosexuals it is not the same in EVERY relationship’s situation.

  15. Mr. SD says:

    “Men do you expect your woman to submit to you? How do you handle it when she doesn’t?”

    Its also my job as the man to lead. Leadership is dope when you know how to do it well..almost like good sex..lol If my lady wont “submit” (depending on how strong I feel about the issue at hand). I’ll have to find a way to get her to see my point and still get to make the final decision at the same time.

    Delivery is very important as well. I’ll ask my lady her opinion and leave the door wide open for her input. I’ll even go as far as including her ideas in the decision so she feels included. That’s the easy part..lol Thats what makes it a win win…yea its my show but you wanna feel like you runnin it? by all means sweetie add your input..”I wanna know what would you do and how would you handle it” = G..G ya wifee up..lol..you let her go inn..and just incorporate her ideas into the decision and we both win…BUT I AM KING and I will probably have the final word!

    Sidebar on how to also win: Let her win the small battles so she feels important….lol

    damn im spittin that king shit today…lol

    1. krystal light says:

      Boooooooooooooooooo! lol
      Look Mr. SD, you’re only king if I say so, don’t come around here acting like you’re entitled because you have external gentalia and putting your foot down and shit. That’s where I draw the line.

      1. Mr. SD says:

        Yea Kryst!! i love it when pretty girls curse..lol

        You have to pardon me on the last “i am king” line, the Leo part of me was typing..lol

  16. i believe in traditional gender roles. i come from a traditional home. that’s not to say that i would try to rule my home with an iron fist. i believe when a man takes on a leadership role he is like the president of the united states. he can’t be well versed in everything or be an expert. that’s why he has cabinet members. secretary of education, secretary of state, etc. he doesn’t make official decisions without consulting his cabinet.

  17. KitKatCuty84 says:

    I agree more with Starita’s delineation of roles. But I have a question: How does this work for the career woman? My parents own a law firm together and are partners in life and in work. Because of that, I’ve seen that it’s possible for a woman to have a career and raise a family successfully.

    But what happens when your dreams are a bit BIGGER than your man’s dreams? Like, he just enjoys having a steady job and making a life with you, and you want that life too, but you also want a career that may take you EVERYWHERE as part of that? Is that possible? Would him travelling with you or making decisions that take your higher-stakes job into account still include submission? Or would you be being the boss then?

  18. Aleyah the Great says:

    i wholeheartedly agree. like some other posters said, people believe that being submissive is a negative thing when it’s really not. men and women just have, or should have, different roles. i really like what this video is saying and i think it builds a really strong foundation for a relationship. as a man, you should provide for and take care of your household and the woman should look after it and believe that her husband will do everything to make sure they’re all set. this of course takes a hell of a lot of trust. personally i really like the idea of eventually finding a man and catering to his needs and vice versa.

  19. ddd says:

    if you choose the right partner…. this won’t be an issue. it will just happen. but to be more specific or the ladies… if you date him or marry him, you should do so as a result of seeing that he has your best interests at heart.. then even if he decides to take “the lead” on certain things, you won’t even need to worry about it. if he knows you, your views will be presented. equally, if he knows you as his partner like to have your opinion heard so that mutual agreements can be had, then he will bring important decisions to you, just as you bring them to him. i really think that people overthink this….

    furthermore, to reach a point where important mutual decisions are being made you had to have been with them for a significant amount of time =S … so if you guys are still highly incompatible at that point then you’re discussing the wrong decisions – you should be discussing your relationship!

  20. Vee says:

    This is so far from my mind-set and so far from the mind-set of pretty much every man and woman I know that I don’t think there’s even point commenting on it… more than to say I completely, utterly, whole-heartedly disagree.

    People seem to think that just because our grandparents or our parents stayed together they were happier than us, or that their kids are happier, when everyone is just as messed up as they’ve always been.

  21. Krista says:

    I believe that a woman can be independent and still love, support and cherish her Man. Just as a man should be independent and do the same for his Woman.

    I’m honestly way too outspoken to submit. Sexually I submit while sometimes dominating. But serving and catering to him? Uh, no. He’s a grown ass man, he doesn’t need me serving/catering him, just like I don’t need or want me serving or catering to me.
    Maybe I’m misunderstanding this, if I am correct me please. But I just can’t imagine being submissive in a relationship.

    1. xoxoxo says:

      A healthy relationship is about give and take on an equal basis, so I don’t really understand where your coming from in terms of not catering to your dude and vice versa …
      Isn’t that part of the pluses in a relationship?

  22. Honor says:

    Even though we women are discussing whether we “should or shoudn’t” be submitting, I rarely hear anyone say what submitting to a man really does for them. I for one have been really drawn to this idea because I have realized that at the core, I am a very feminine woman. I have so many interests that are very feminine (sewing, cooking, embroidery..) but have always been embarrassed about them since I don’t know many women my age that do these things. I was attracted to a very masculine man and I only realize now that when we were dating he was in charge, and it felt very natural. Then after several years of marriage, I can see that I often dug my heels in at his decisions because I “knew” I should not let him tell me what to do, and not for much more reason than that. And I stopped seeing all the amazing things he did for us because I was so wrapped up in how difficult life was for me- because it is the social norm for us women to bemoan how much we have to do and how hard our lives are. Now that I have been reading and thinking about the feminine role, I realize that all the stuff I felt I had to do was just a massive task for me. I have to let him know when I am open for sex so I won’t always be rejecting him? Talk about guilt, stress, worry- as soon as I gave him control of that I felt so free and actually felt more attracted to him than in our whole married life. It is very liberating to finally realize that I don’t have to feel ashamed of being feminine, and it is making me feel much more in love with my husband to hand over things I wasn’t good at anyway!!

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